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9 BEST Things To Do In Vang Vieng, Laos [UPDATED FOR 2026]

Nic Hilditch-Short - Last updated on June 16th, 2026 at 9:00 pm

9 BEST Things To Do In Vang Vieng, Laos [UPDATED FOR 2026]

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The 9 Best Things to Do in Vang

Vang Vieng was once a byword for backpackers’ excess and the devastating effects it can have on a place. In the past, this wonderful village surrounded by mountains and stunning rivers was described as a “Paradise Lost“, engulfed by the drunken backpackers who would pass through without a care for the culture or indeed the opportunities for true adventure travel here.

But today the town is a very different place, especially if you venture out of the centre for some spectacular Vang Vieng activities!

Now it really is a paradise for those seeking all the thrills, views and culture Laos can conjure up! A true wonderland once again, here are our top things to do Vang Vieng!

Chapters

  1. The 9 Best Things to Do in Vang Vieng:
  2. How To Get To Vang Vieng
  3. Where To Stay In Vang Vieng
  4. Get Insured Before Visiting Laos
Nic and Paul on an old motorbike with a Laotian flag on it at the top of a mountain with other mountains in the distance in the town of Vang Vieng, Laos
You can’t park there mate!
Image: The Roaming Renegades

The 9 Best Things to Do in Vang Vieng:

Here is our rundown of the best of the Vang Vieng activities in this beautiful town.

There’s no doubt about it, Vang Vieng is one of the top destinations for backpackers in Asia, and for good reason. This town is beautiful, has plenty of epic things to do and it’s got unbeatable chill vibes.

Nic and Shorty of The Roaming Renegades standing on a summit in Laos and smiling broadly while holding a Laotian flag.

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1. Check out the incredible scenes from the Pha Poak viewpoint and the Nam Xay Viewpoint

Around Vang Vieng there are several viewpoints to take in, these are our favourites.

Pha Poak Viewpoint

Vang Vieng is surrounded by amazing mountains and lush jungles that are just waiting to be explored. Heading across the river and beyond the first set of bungalows are several easy hikes to be taken, all of which will leave you in awe of this magnificent place.

Following the trail of plastic bags used as flags through the countryside will bring you to a small peak topped with a red flag called Pha Poak.

From the bottom, it might look rather modest, but take the steep scramble up to the top and you will be rewarded with jaw-dropping views at every angle!

Head further passed here and you will find yourself trekking deep within the jungle! This is such a cheap and rewarding entry on our things to do Vang Vieng list and is a must-do and one of our favourite Vang Vieng activities.

Laos is one of the best budget travel destinations to visit… you can see why when you look at these prices!

Price

  • 10,000-15,000 LAK per person.

Nam Xay Viewpoint

Reaching this viewpoint you’ll have to either take a scooter or tuk-tuk as it’s a little further out of the town. Or, if you’re up for it you can I suppose hike, but don’t underestimate the distance in the heat!

It is approximately 6-8 km (15-20 minutes by scooter) north of Vang Vieng via Route 13, and you’ll see signs most of the way. You’ll need to take a turn in the direction of the village of Ban Phonxay. Once there you’ll find a carpark for your bike.

Again, this might look like a relatively small mountain, but it’s quite a steep scramble that requires using all four limbs on many sections with some serious consequences if you were to fall. Having said that, it only takes around 30 mins to get to the top! This viewpoint will likely be a little busier and it’s got a few fun things on top like a motorbike, but the view is incredible and is a must-do thing in Vang Vieng.

Price

  • 10,000-15,000 LAK per person.
  • Plus a small fee for parking your bike

Others To Check Out

If you have time, have a look at these others:

  • Pha Ngern 
  • Kaeng Nyui Waterfall
  • Phangern Mountain
An old motorbike with a Laotian flag on it at the top of a mountain with other mountains in the distance in the town of Vang Vieng, Laos
I wonder how that got up here!
Image: The Roaming Renegades

2. Explore the incredible cave systems by torchlight: Pha Thao Caves, Lusi Cave

It will come surely as no surprise that with such a mountainous karst region comes many hidden caves and crevices. These limestone features have worn down over thousands of years to create magnificent voids within the peaks that can be explored by the brave and intrepid and make up some of the best Vang Vieng activities on offer.

Just like the wonderful waterfalls outside of Luang Prabang, this area proves how beautiful the natural landscape of Laos really is.

Pha Thao Cave

There are quite a few caves around Vang Vieng, the most popular being Pha Thao Cave 11km out of town that can easily be reached on a scooter. This cave system is quite popular and has well-formed trails inside and ladders to access each section. The way to the cave is well signposted and easy to find and features some impressive chambers.

Price

  • The cave entrance price is 10,000 kip / £1.00 / $1.16
The view out to the jungle covered mountains from inside one of the limestone caves in Vang Vieng, Laos
Hello from the other side
Image: The Roaming Renegades

Lusi Cave

Our favourite was the less visited Lusi Cave, this place is actually a lot bigger than you first imagine taking almost an hour to explore it all and get back out. Made even more intense also by the fact it is only accessible via torchlight and you will be likely the only people in there…apart from the huge huntsman spider that is!!

For sheer adventure, this is one of the top things to do in Vang Vieng due to the fact that you can actually swim inside in the pitch black too! Visiting is easily combined with climbing the Pha Poak viewpoint as it is just a few KM along the same trail.

Price

  • The cave entrance price is 10,000 kip / £1.00 / $1.16
  • You can also hire a guide for an extra 10,000 kip / £1.00 / $1.16
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There are spiders lurking in here!
Image: The Roaming Renegades

Tham Chang or Tham Jang

Closer to the town and just a few steps up the Pha Lao mountain just outside of Vang Vieng is Tham Chang cave. A smaller but feature full cave it is also of major significance to the people of the area as it was used as a refuge against the invading Chinese in the 19th century.

The cave offers great views out over the town and it is also possible to swim in the freezing cold water of a lagoon fed by water straight from the caves!

Price

  • The cave entrance price is 15,000 kip / £1.50
  • The fee for crossing the bridge to access the caves is 2,000 Kip / £0.20

If you want to experience the caves of Vang Vieng but you’re a little unsure of where to go or what is safe, then there are various tours you can jump on where you’ll get to do heaps of awesome activities in one day such as kayaking and ziplining alongside exploring the caves.

3. Go tubing through the Tham Nam Cave (Water Cave)

As well as the other cave systems in the town another must-do of the Vang Vieng activities is tubing through Tham Nam caves. Offering a combination of two of the typical things to do in Vang Vieng, caving and tubing, the caves are a fun and spooky experience.

This incredible adventure takes you through an eerie spider-filled cave in the pitch black!! Pulling yourself along via a rope through the 500-metre low cave the narrow tunnels offer a close-up view of magnificent formations and a surreal disorienting experience.

The cave is often included as the first activity on some of the popular full-day trips around Vang Vieng meaning it can get very busy in the mornings so visiting in the afternoon is recommended.

The cave is around 14km from Vang Vieng

Price

  • The cave entrance price is 10,000 kip / £1.00 / $1.16
  • You can also hire a guide for an extra 10,000 kip / £1.00 / $1.16
  • To cross the access bridge it costs 10,000 kip / £1.00 / $1.16
  • Parking your scooter costs 5,000 Kip / £0.50 / $0.60

If you don’t feel to confident to either ride a scooter here, or to find your way if you’re walking, then another option is to take a tour. The great thing about a tour is that they including food and other activities. The one below for example, you not only visit the water cave but you also get to finish the day kayaking down the river back to town too, which is pretty cool! Plus, you know you’re safer with a guide too.

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Gotta run through the jungle…
Image: The Roaming Renegades

Our Favourite Backpacks

Osprey Farpoint/ Fairview

We’ve used the Osprey Farpoint/ Fairview for all our backpacking adventures over the past 5 years and highly recommend them!

The main area of the pack opens like a suitcase, which is great for using packing cubes to keep everything organised and they even come with a detachable day pack!

4. Climb on the amazing limestone cliffs: One of the most adventurous things to do in Vang Vieng!

Vang Vieng is also a rock climbers’ mecca. It not only features many developed routes and crags for the more well-rehearsed climber but there are also easier walls and scrambles available all over town.

You can choose to rent your own gear out from the many shops in town or take a guide for a lesson in the art of clinging to rock with your fingertips! The limestone crags offer some incredible sport climbing for all abilities and have been well-developed by local and international climbers.

Some routes do close during the rainy season but not all of them so do check beforehand to see what is available. One of the companies we can recommend the most is Adam’s Climbing School due to their level of experience, equipment and knowledge.

Price

  • Half-day courses cost around 180,000 Kip / £16.00 / $20.00 pp
  • Full-day courses cost 260,000 Kip / £27.00 / $30.00 pp
  • 3 day courses cost 1,325,000 Kip / £117.00 / $153.00 pp
  • Gear rental for everything costs 350,000 Kip / £31.00 / $40.50 for two people
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Don’t look down!
Image: The Roaming Renegades

5. Spend a lazy day tubing on the river: One of the most typical things to do in Vang Vieng!

Tubing on the Nam Son River hasn’t had the greatest of reputations over the years. It has been seen as the ultimate activity of the drunk, disrespectful and downright idiotic backpacker. However after the authorities cleaned up the river of the illegal bars, drug-fueled raves and death trap swings we are here to tell you tubing in Vang Vieng can be something completely different.

We headed out on the water for a peaceful float down this lazy river, instead of stopping off at bars we were laid back taking in the stunning scenery around us, so we really do think it has to be one of the best Vang Vieng activities now!

There is no better way to see both the sheer beauty of the area as well as having the most relaxing day you could imagine! Don’t be put off by previous reputations, tubing is one of the best things to do Vang Vieng!

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Sunburn incoming…
Image: The Roaming Renegades

The ride should take around 3 hours without pit stops but remember in the rainy season when the river is higher you will go faster! Aim to get an early start on the river as your tube needs to be returned before 6 pm to get your deposit back.

Bring along a good-quality dry bag and leave your valuables at home. You could also get a GoPro so you can capture your memories without ruining your phone or other camera.

You are ok in your swimming gear but bring with you a t-shirt/ shorts etc for walking back around town as it is considered rude to walk around half-dressed in Laos. Flip flips are best secured or put in your bag too as they have a tendency to float off in the current! Bring sunscreen and remember to stop off regularly and re-apply!

There are other ways to enjoy the river too, it’s possible to rent out kayaks as well as visit a zipline course partway along the river.

Price

  • Renting the tube costs: 60,000 / £6.00 / $7.00, plus a returnable deposit of 60,000 / £6.00 / $7.00

Tubes can be rented from a few places but only one is the “official” place. It’s not the easiest to find but the town is quite small so asking does help if you get lost! The office is across the road from Hally’s Coffee which is on Google Maps, look for a yellow sign and tubes piled up outside!

A tuk-tuk will fill up and take you to the start of the river and you finish at the Smile Bar where you can walk back into town from there or get a tuk-tuk.

Other Options

Whilst the tubing is pretty fun, it also comes with a bit of a reputation and can be a little slow during the dry season. Another great option is to do a kayaking tour down the river instead and honestly, it’s probably a much better way to see the environment around here without looking like you’re on a booze cruise!

Our Favourite Travel Camera & Lens

Sony A7IV & Sony FE 24-105 f4

The Sony a7IV is the perfect travel camera. Offering incredible image quality, great portability and a varied lens selection.

Our favourite travel lens is the Sony FE 24-105 f4. it’s a great all-rounder, super sharp and a perfect focal range for travel.

6. Take a leap of faith or just a dip at the Blue Lagoon!

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Go for it!
Image: The Roaming Renegades

Vang Vieng has no shortage of amazing water to take a dip in, be it inside a cave, on a tube or after jumping 35 ft from a tree!! Over at the blue lagoon a few km from town you will find a haven for both the adrenaline junkie within you and also the relaxation seeker! The natural phenomenon set in the stunning karst mountains of Vang Vieng shines a light turquoise colour in the blistering Laotian sun.

Here you can climb the tree that overhangs the water and test out your bravery from its highest point at 35 ft / 10m! If that’s not your cup of tea then instead relax on the many low swings that sit in the water and watch the others take the leap into this wonderful water!

There are also other pools nearby you can visit, some are quieter and have other features too making this area home to some of the best Vang Vieng activities. The main one, featured here, can get quite busy though when we visited we didn’t think it was too bad!

Price:

  • Entrance to the Blue Lagoon is 10,000 Kip / £1.00 / $1.16
  • Bike parking is 5,000 Kip / £0.50 / $0.60

If you’re not confident to rent and ride a bike here (it is a little way out of town on some pretty rough roads), then the good news is that it’s easy and cheap to take a tour. These usually come with food included too and give you plenty of time to explore the lagoon without having to worry about riding back. Plus, this way you can enjoy a beer or two!

7. Get lost in the amazing countryside and take in local life

Nic walking across a farmers field in Vang Vieng, Laos toward the giant jungle covered karst mountains, in Laos
Deffo not pretend walking!
Image: The Roaming Renegades

Whilst Vang Vieng town centre itself might not be much to look at the surrounding countryside is awash with local culture and beautiful farmlands. Set to the backdrop of the jungle-covered mountains taking just a short walk from the bars and noise of Vang Vieng itself you will find yourself completely surrounded by untamed nature and fascinating culture.

Out here many local ways still remain despite the invasion of tourism in the centre. Rickety bamboo bridges cross the river, leave covered shelters house farmers in their fields and children play happily in the river! Without costing you a penny and one of the best things to do Vang Vieng seeing real life here is such a wonderful experience.

You can either rent a scooter, or bike or just walk from the town centre. We recommend renting a scooter whilst visiting the many Vang Vieng activities to take advantage of the many things to do just outside of the town and also to explore the wider countryside.

Price for rentals:

  • A scooter costs around 50,000-80,000 kip / £5.00 – £8.00  / $5.78 – $9.25 for a day excluding fuel
  • Bicycle rentals cost around 10,000 – 20,000 Kip / £1.00  – £2.00  / $1.16 – $2.30

Another way to explore the countryside outside of Vang Vieng is to jump on a guided tour. Here you will be able to get access to more remote areas and people that you could on your own. Plus, you won’t get lost like we did! These tours also include visiting other caves and trekking to areas that would be potentially a little dangerous on your own.

8. Want to chill out? Have a friend’s marathon on a comfy sofa in a bar!

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The river is the heart of the town
Image: The Roaming Renegades

Yes, you read that correctly!! For some reason, maybe because of the history of drug use here, this seems to be a big thing!! I mean, who doesn’t like Friends!!??

So after a day of adventure, why not kick back at a bar with some cheap food, drink and the surreal sound of canned laughter floating out into the humid jungle atmosphere? It’s a strange sight, and it probably sums up what Vang Vieng is about.

Sure, it’s a true backpacker town, and some of those “holier than thou” travellers might turn their noses at it. But what it is is fun, beautiful and full of adventure!! Oh, and Banana Pancakes of course!

9. Catch unforgettable sunsets along the rice fields 

things to do in luang prabang laos guide places to visit sunset flower
Pure serenity. Can you spot the balloon?
Image: The Roaming Renegades

Vang Vieng just seems like one of those wonderful places that never fails to provide you with the perfect sunset…even on the dullest of days. Its unique climate, mountain ridges, open fields and stunning river allow a multitude of locations from which to watch the glowing orange sun dip below the horizon.

There are also balloon rides for those brave enough to float above this magical landscape at this most beautiful of times. Those of us with a smaller budget can wander over to the sunflower fields and nearby rice paddies for one of the most awe-inspiring sunsets we’ve ever witnessed.

How To Get To Vang Vieng

Vang Vieng is well connected on the backpacking trail and can be reached these days by either bus or train. Transport has improved considerably in Laos since the opening of the Chinese-funded railway, though it has come with some controversy. We saw the massive pylons whilst travelling on the Mekong in the Luang Prabang and Chiang Mai slow boat and it was quite shocking.

Mini Bus

The mini-bus is the cheapest and the most classic way to get to Vang Vieng. From Vientiane, it takes roughly 4 hours and will set you back £7 each.

Bus

Another option is to opt for the larger bus or coach. These are much more comfortable and offer you more room. Plus, they only take 2.5 hours from Vientiane and still cost the same at £7.

Train

By far the quickest and most comfortable way to get to Vang Vieng is on the brand new bullet trains. These offer amazing room, and air conditioning and of course, you can walk around and grab food or go to the toilet whenever you want! They take just less than 1 hour and cost £18 each.

See More Options Here

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Wooden houses with washing hanging up surrounded by jungle with mountains in the distance in Vang Vieng, Laos
Beats hanging my washing out at home!
Image: The Roaming Renegades

Where To Stay In Vang Vieng

Let’s take a look at the best spots to base yourself in whilst you’re visiting Vang Vieng.

The Best Backpacker Option: Vangvieng Rock Backpacker Rooftop Hostel

For backpackers wanting the full Vang Vieng experience, then look no further. While this is a bit of a party joint, it still has curtains on the beds and doesn’t get quite as crazy as those with pools. Plus, the rooftop terrace is pure vibes whatever time of day you find yourself up there!

rooftop backpacker hostel vang vieng, laos
  • Free breakfast
  • Rooftop terrace
  • Curtains on each bunk
  • Chill out area with bean bags and pool tables

The Best Budget Option: Vang Vieng Bungalows

For a little bit extra cash, stay in these wonderful private bungalows with access to a pool and garden. Each unit has its own bathroom and kettle and it’s situated in a quieter area of town.

vang vieng bungalows
  • Swimming pool
  • Private bungalows with bathrooms
  • Access to garden and terrace
  • Close to the river

The Best Fancy Option: Riverside Boutique Resort

If you’re feeling a little fancy, then Laos is a good place to splash out as you’re money goes much further here. The Riverside Boutique Resort is an ideal location to relax by the pool with great views of the mountains.

Riverside boutique resort vang vieng
  • Swimming pool with mountain views
  • Onsite restaurant
  • Spa and wellness centre
  • Balconies in each room

Get Insured Before Visiting Laos

Whilst Southeast Asia is a relatively safe place to visit, there have been various people who fall foul to the wild party nature of Vang Vieng in particular, whether that has been in a tubing accident or one of the methanol poisonings that have shaken the region. Make sure to always stick to bottled beers and canned drinks to stay as safe as you can and never get drunk and go on the river. But accidents happen, so make sure you’re adequately covered.

SafetyWing Travel Insurance

SafetyWing

Travel insurance is one of those annoying things that no one likes to think about, let alone pay for, when you’re planning your next trip. It can also be bloody annoying as a backpacker/long-term traveller to find affordable coverage that meets the itinerary-less lifestyle (*cough* World Nomads *cough*).

So instead of getting subpar travel insurance, now we just always go with  SafetyWing. It takes like 5-10 minutes to purchase your policy and essentially functions as a monthly subscription plan with near-global coverage!

Final Thoughts On The best things to do in Vang Vieng

Right then folks, there you have it, our complete guide to the best things to do in Vang Vieng. For all it’s faults, we absolutely love this town and we’re not even drinkers, so it just goes to show that despite it’s reputation, there is absolutely much more to it.

It’s the perfect spot for nature and adventure lovers to hang out in this classic backpacker town before it gets even more popular with Chinese visitors. Despite the changes over the last few years, it still does kinda feel like its from “The Beach”, which is ironic as that’s one of the things it doesn’t have! But meh, who needs that when you’ve got river tubing in the mountains!

A wooden bridge with power lines crossing over a small river on the outskirts of Vang Vieng, Laos with mountains in the distance
This bridge looks about as stable as my mental health!
Image: The Roaming Renegades

Buy Us a Coffee

A few people have asked us recently how they could help us out on our travels, so we thought we’d add our very own tip jar for those who can’t support us by clicking through our affiliate links.

We work hella hard on this site to bring you all the most epic and up-to-date travel info from around the planet. So if you’ve enjoyed what you’ve seen, then we’d appreciate anything, no matter how small, you can contribute as a thank you.

Above all, thank you for being here and reading our content, it means the world to us.

Nic & Paul

Frequently Asked Questions

Yes it is! It’s one of my favourite places in Southeast Asia with a unique and magical vibe. It’s a proper old school backpacking destination in a stunningly beautiful location.

Three to four days is enough time to cover most of the main activities, but I like to give myself at least a week here so I can chill and head out into the countryside more.

Yes, it’s still a party town with plenty of bars and clubs, but that’s not all it is. We are not into partying at all but we still loved the town for it’s beauty, vibe and adventure activities.

Hot Air Ballooning is another amazing thing to do in Vang Vieng, it cost around £158.82 and can be booked here.

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Organise Your Trip Here

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Chief Editor

Nic Hilditch-Short

Yo, I’m Nic (they/them), one-half of The Roaming Renegades.

I’m an adventure (and halloumi) obsessed traveller with a passion for hiking mountains, exploring cities, watching Arsenal win, moshing out to Rammstein in random European fields and getting hopelessly lost on a motorbike somewhere in Asia! I am also a proud member of the LGBT+ community.

I’ve explored 80 countries, lived in Australia and New Zealand, and spent months wandering Southeast Asia, South America and Eastern Europe, all while trying to avoid growing up!

Did it work? I dunno, but my back hurts, and I still collect Pokémon cards! Who wants in?!

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Comments

21 comments

  1. I am so amazed at how cheap things go for in Vang Vieng! Such an affordable paradise that you found.

  2. Marvi says:

    Wow.. Vang Vieng’s natural beauty is truly breathtaking. And it offers such great hikes and wonderful water activities too. Good to know that the authorities have cleaned up the Nam Son River. I would love to go on tubing here too.

    1. Yeah its a really stunning place and so much nicer now to enjoy the landscape now it’s cleaned up!

  3. waexplorer says:

    I have heard all the stories about the backpackers, great to hear that things have improved. Looks like a great place to visit and so many things to do. I can definitely see myself chilling out in a tube all day.

    1. Yeah it was getting really bad with a few people dying in close succession so the authorities really had to do something and it seems to have worked. They’ve not taken the soul out of the place but instead made it into a kind of hippy backpacker town which is cool.

  4. Cindy says:

    I’m so glad they’ve been able to clean up Vang Vieng and it is, once again, a paradise found. I would love to do the tubing down the river and through the caves. I’d love to go to the Blue Lagoon too, but the low swing will do fine for me. As for a Friends marathon with banana pancakes, that’s my kind of adventure!

    1. Yeah, they really had to act after there were some deaths here. It’s got such a better vibe here now, it’s still a backpacker hub but much more chilled, a bit like Pai near Chiang Mai. There is something for everyone here which is nice.

  5. mohanaandaninda says:

    Vang Vieng seems to have something for everyone. The sun-soaked countryside looks perfect for leisurely hikes. I’d love to see the famous rice terraces of Laos and go tubing in the river 🙂

    1. It really does!! What it lacks in beaches it makes up for along the river and with the stunning countryside! We really loved it there.

  6. Susanne says:

    I’ve never heard of this region before. A big mistake, it seems to me. I also like climbing and would have tried my luck on the wall. Well and a lazy day to a river or lake, I’m always there. Nice impressions, thank you!
    Susanne

    1. Thanks! Yeah it’s a little out of the way for those not on the backpacker trail but it’s such a fun place with so much to do. It’s a nice combination of action and relaxation!

  7. Candy says:

    The caves look so spooky and fun. It’s been so long since I’ve last visited a cave and being able to swim in one is something I’ve never experienced. I’d also love to visit the countryside 🙂

    1. Ha ha, yeah they are with those spiders in there!! It’s such a beautiful place to explore with some fun activities.

  8. Patricia - Ze Wandering Frogs says:

    Laos is one of the few countries we did not visit in Southeast Asia, and looks like we should have. Vang Vieng seems to be the type of places we would love: great scenery, hiking, traditions! That jump into the blue lagoon is rather impressive! Not for the faint-hearted!

    1. If you get chance to go back then we highly recommend Loas, it’s got a lot going on for a smaller and lesser visited country. We had such a good time at the lagoon, we love jumping off stuff! lol

  9. Yukti says:

    I never knew about Vang Vieng before reading your post. It truly looks like a paradise. Tham Nam (Water cave) looks interesting.

    1. It’s a small place but a must do if you’re a backpacker in SEA!! It’s a really cool place.

  10. Michael Hodgson says:

    Vang Vieng sounds incredible! You mentioned it was once overrun by backpackers and a “paradise lost.” But now it is not? What caused the turn around and recovery from the drunken haven you indicated it was formerly known for. Very cool the town got is identity back.

    1. It’s still very much a backpacker haven for sure, but after a spate of deaths on the river the government finally acted and did something about it bringing in new laws and regulations. After that things calmed down a lot, it’s still not exactly a sleepy village in the hills but a different crowd of backpackers come now. It’s quite a unique place!

  11. Lara Dunning says:

    You had me at cave tour until you said spider filled cave! Yikes! I really appreciate that you included the costs, amazing prices! Always love following your adventures!

    1. Ha ha, yeah those spiders are bloody huge too, the huntsman you get in Laos are bigger than in Aus!!